This is a feature article I wrote 13 years ago, interviewing Mr. Zhuge Jiabao, a renowned Baguazhang master. Reading it again today, I still find it very inspiring. I hope its republication can motivate and enlighten enthusiasts of traditional martial arts. — Zhang Quanliang
Mr. Zhuge Jiabao, an early disciple of Mr. Guo Gumin, one of the second-generation leading figures of Liang-style Baguazhang, is highly respected in the Liang-style Baguazhang community for his decades of dedication. One day, while visiting “Wu Soul” magazine, I discussed Mr. Zhuge’s situation with the editorial staff, who hoped I could help interview Mr. Zhuge, mainly to understand how the Baguazhang predecessors taught and practiced, and the extent of their skills. I found the topic proposed by “Wu Soul” meaningful for exploring, inheriting, and promoting Chinese traditional martial arts, so I gladly accepted.
On the afternoon of February 7, 2003, I, along with my fellow disciple Wang Hongsheng, knocked on Mr. Zhuge’s door, interrupting his afternoon nap. Dressed casually, Mr. Zhuge, of medium height and slim build, with clear features and fair skin, didn’t look like a martial artist. Despite being 84 years old, he was agile and spirited. Living in a standalone courtyard with three rooms on each side, he and his wife resided in the east wing. His 83-year-old wife, seated in a wheelchair with a welcoming smile, apologized for not being able to stand up and invited us to sit. Mrs. Zhuge, a former teacher at Beijing No. 6 Middle School, had retired in the 1950s due to illness, undergoing three major surgeries and suffering from lung disease, heart disease, and cerebral thrombosis. Yet, she displayed remarkable resilience, participating in daily activities with Mr. Zhuge’s help. Their modest yet tidy home, maintained by the elderly couple living independently from their working children, reflected Mr. Zhuge’s exceptional spirit.
After introductions, Mr. Zhuge humbly stated he had nothing noteworthy to share, considering himself merely a “hobbyist” of Baguazhang, having set aside his practice to care for his wife. Mrs. Zhuge mentioned she never supported his martial arts training, preferring literary pursuits. I argued that martial arts, as our cultural essence, deserved Mr. Zhuge’s promotion. The couple’s nuanced words hinted at their past hardships, but that wasn’t my focus. I shifted the conversation to Mr. Zhuge’s views on the development of traditional martial arts. He suggested that, instead of waiting for national actions, grassroots martial arts organizations should take the lead. For example, instead of annual gatherings for formalities, the Beijing Baguazhang Research Association could engage in meaningful technical exchanges and martial arts research. Mr. Zhuge’s candid and thoughtful remarks resonated with us, addressing the very essence of my interview. He observed that aside from a few research groups with substantial activities, many simply collect fees and hold occasional events, leaving members unfulfilled. Without change, these organizations lose their significance.
Our conversation with Mr. Zhuge Jiabao began from there. Below is the record of our discussion:
Q: Where are you originally from? When and how did you start learning Baguazhang from Mr. Guo Gumin?
A: My ancestral home is in Shaoxing, Zhejiang Province, but my grandfather’s generation moved to Beijing. My father loved Peking opera and martial arts and was good friends with famous opera artist Yang Xiaolou and martial artist Guo Gumin. Born in March 1920 into a relatively affluent family, I was introduced to Mr. Guo by my father at the age of 16 in 1936, beginning my training in Liang-style Baguazhang.
Q: Where and how long did you practice daily with Mr. Guo? Who were your fellow disciples?
A: Mr. Guo lived with his top disciple, Du Yunting, who owned an electrical supply store with a spacious yard where we sometimes practiced. We also practiced at the homes of Li Ziming and other senior disciples. Because I was studying during the day, I only had time to practice for two hours in the morning and two hours in the evening, dedicating whole days during holidays.
Q: What did Mr. Guo start teaching you, and what were his requirements?
A: We began with circle walking and the fixed postures of the eight Baguazhang palms. Initially focusing on walking and basic palm techniques, Mr. Guo emphasized the importance of correct posture and movement, demanding at least two hours of practice each morning and evening. I adhered to this routine for three years.
Q: Were there any specific aspects to pay special attention to?
A: Everything required a natural approach without forcing. For example, “
Q: Can the skills of these senior masters be compared to Master Guo’s?
A: They all had great respect for Master Guo, and he held them in high regard as well. They often studied and sparred together, but I never saw them compete against each other.
Q: How great were Master Guo’s skills from what you witnessed?
A: Master Guo’s skills were immense and almost supernatural, with a swift and unstoppable force. Many skilled martial artists who sought to challenge him would be overpowered by a mere touch. One named Song Lanbo, known for his iron sand palm technique, and another named Zhang Wenyi, also a practitioner of the iron sand palm, knew of Master Guo’s prowess. On one occasion, Zhang incited Song to spar with Master Guo. Song, underestimating Master Guo, attacked him directly with a palm strike. Master Guo, without dodging, used a “Golden Hook Hanging a Jade Vase” technique, lifting and shaking his wrist upward to throw Song off. Song immediately knelt and asked to become his disciple. He was over a decade older than Master Guo, making him the oldest disciple Master Guo accepted. Another man, Zhang Baoshan, known for his immense arm strength, who used to carry water without a yoke, was effortlessly handled by Master Guo when attempting the “flat ground incense insertion” technique. In 1940, a Japanese martial artist challenged Master Guo, impressed by his reputation. The Japanese martial artist asked if he could punch Master Guo’s belly. Master Guo agreed, and after taking several punches without effect, used the momentum of the opponent’s punch to propel him away with his abdomen. The Japanese martial artist was so impressed that he wanted to become Master Guo’s disciple and offered a substantial reward, which Master Guo declined, citing a trip. He did this out of patriotism, unwilling to teach Chinese martial arts to foreigners. Another time, Master Guo demonstrated his skill to a vice governor named Cui, who questioned if Master Guo could strike him while holding his wrist. Master Guo’s countermove sent Cui tumbling, proving his skill.
Q: How proficient have you become in your practice?
A: I don’t consider myself very proficient. I practiced diligently for three years as Master Guo instructed, but my practice decreased over time, especially after my spouse became ill. However, Baguazhang has greatly benefited me. At 84, I’m healthy, with good hearing and vision, and I still practice the techniques I learned. My fellow disciples also practiced diligently, such as Du Yunting, who practiced thrice daily. Once, Du Yunting displayed his skill by countering a surprise attack with a simple but effective technique, showcasing the power of his training.
Master Zhuge humbly spoke of others rather than himself, but his skill and knowledge were evident in our conversation. He also mentioned the therapeutic effects of Baguazhang, with several disciples healing from serious illnesses through practice. He emphasized the importance of stance work in Baguazhang, both moving and standing stances, which are challenging but crucial for developing agility rather than brute strength.
As our visit concluded, Master Zhuge prepared to cook dinner, a daily routine that demonstrated his resilience and dedication. My visit may have added to his burdens, but our shared goal of promoting traditional martial arts brought us comfort. I left with profound respect for Master Zhuge, a true martial artist with deep knowledge and experience, representing a valuable asset to the martial arts community. The government and martial arts organizations should recognize, respect, and learn from such masters to ensure the proper development of traditional Chinese martial arts.
